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Comments on: Moving Day http://brooklyniswatching.com/2009/07/02/moving-day/ BIW is a mixed reality project that brings SL into a Brooklyn art gallery Sat, 31 Jul 2010 15:47:23 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: jvanb http://brooklyniswatching.com/2009/07/02/moving-day/comment-page-1/#comment-1956 jvanb Sun, 05 Jul 2009 17:17:26 +0000 http://brooklyniswatching.com/?p=1033#comment-1956 I think that list will be a good place to start a discussion of what is allowed and what isn't- its always good to have concrete examples to talk about. You're probably right about the red-rag to the bull thing... we'll see. I hope not. I think that list will be a good place to start a discussion of what is allowed and what isn’t- its always good to have concrete examples to talk about.

You’re probably right about the red-rag to the bull thing… we’ll see. I hope not.

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By: Arahan Claveau http://brooklyniswatching.com/2009/07/02/moving-day/comment-page-1/#comment-1954 Arahan Claveau Sun, 05 Jul 2009 16:59:10 +0000 http://brooklyniswatching.com/?p=1033#comment-1954 I think you would agree Jay that the work I gave as examples in the list above provoked some really worthwhile discussion on this blog and the podcasts, and I am sure you would defend all of it as art. Imposing limitations I think is like a red-rag to a bull, you will now get people trying to break the rules that previously wouldn't have bothered. And to clarify when I said in my last post that the Selavy & Ichibot work would now be allowed I meant the 'playground.space' piece, 'epidodic.atomized' would still be problematic under the Linden guidelines. I cannot imagine how much less interesting the first year would have been without Ichibot's brilliant contributions. I think you would agree Jay that the work I gave as examples in the list above provoked some really worthwhile discussion on this blog and the podcasts, and I am sure you would defend all of it as art. Imposing limitations I think is like a red-rag to a bull, you will now get people trying to break the rules that previously wouldn’t have bothered.

And to clarify when I said in my last post that the Selavy & Ichibot work would now be allowed I meant the ‘playground.space’ piece, ‘epidodic.atomized’ would still be problematic under the Linden guidelines. I cannot imagine how much less interesting the first year would have been without Ichibot’s brilliant contributions.

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By: jvanb http://brooklyniswatching.com/2009/07/02/moving-day/comment-page-1/#comment-1952 jvanb Sun, 05 Jul 2009 16:20:42 +0000 http://brooklyniswatching.com/?p=1033#comment-1952 thanks Arahan- i'm trying to go into this with an open mind and just get as much info as I can- it IS very complex -- no matter what happens it will be an interesting experiment in weather and how serious art can exist in SL for very long. I want to remain respectful of everyone involved and if a fight comes over something down the road I don't want it to be over something stupid, and I don't want to fight over something that is just there to be something to fight over- that would be totally boring. thanks Arahan- i’m trying to go into this with an open mind and just get as much info as I can- it IS very complex — no matter what happens it will be an interesting experiment in weather and how serious art can exist in SL for very long. I want to remain respectful of everyone involved and if a fight comes over something down the road I don’t want it to be over something stupid, and I don’t want to fight over something that is just there to be something to fight over- that would be totally boring.

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By: Arahan Claveau http://brooklyniswatching.com/2009/07/02/moving-day/comment-page-1/#comment-1951 Arahan Claveau Sun, 05 Jul 2009 15:59:10 +0000 http://brooklyniswatching.com/?p=1033#comment-1951 Jay, I'll email you about that, too complex to go into here. I did not know that Dekka, so the work I listed above by Venkman, Selavy & Ichibot would now be allowed. But "nipples are still banned", I mean c'mon, this highlights the ridiculousness of the rules. Jay, I’ll email you about that, too complex to go into here.

I did not know that Dekka, so the work I listed above by Venkman, Selavy & Ichibot would now be allowed. But “nipples are still banned”, I mean c’mon, this highlights the ridiculousness of the rules.

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By: Dekka Raymaker http://brooklyniswatching.com/2009/07/02/moving-day/comment-page-1/#comment-1950 Dekka Raymaker Sun, 05 Jul 2009 15:46:17 +0000 http://brooklyniswatching.com/?p=1033#comment-1950 remember nipples are still banned from the Birthday celebrations, but the ruling that you couldn't have a child av in the same picture as a adult av has been dropped. remember nipples are still banned from the Birthday celebrations, but the ruling that you couldn’t have a child av in the same picture as a adult av has been dropped.

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By: jvanb http://brooklyniswatching.com/2009/07/02/moving-day/comment-page-1/#comment-1949 jvanb Sun, 05 Jul 2009 15:41:20 +0000 http://brooklyniswatching.com/?p=1033#comment-1949 I keep hearing conflicting things about the "cultural significance" exemption. I'm going to try to find out more. Arahan, if you don't mind- can you give more details, or link to where the details are when your work had to be removed because some artists were offended by it? what was the work? that example of the cheen pitney nude is troubling for sure. I keep hearing conflicting things about the “cultural significance” exemption. I’m going to try to find out more.

Arahan, if you don’t mind- can you give more details, or link to where the details are when your work had to be removed because some artists were offended by it? what was the work?

that example of the cheen pitney nude is troubling for sure.

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By: Shirley Marquez http://brooklyniswatching.com/2009/07/02/moving-day/comment-page-1/#comment-1942 Shirley Marquez Sun, 05 Jul 2009 15:01:38 +0000 http://brooklyniswatching.com/?p=1033#comment-1942 So far as I know, there are no exceptions to PG for cultural significance. There IS an exception to Adult, so artwork that contains Adult themes would be permitted on Mature sims if it passes that test. But who decides what is "culturally significant"? Sounds like a can of worms to me, just as it has been in real-life exhibits - witness Mapplethorpe or Serrano. So far as I know, there are no exceptions to PG for cultural significance. There IS an exception to Adult, so artwork that contains Adult themes would be permitted on Mature sims if it passes that test.

But who decides what is “culturally significant”? Sounds like a can of worms to me, just as it has been in real-life exhibits – witness Mapplethorpe or Serrano.

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By: Arahan Claveau http://brooklyniswatching.com/2009/07/02/moving-day/comment-page-1/#comment-1941 Arahan Claveau Sun, 05 Jul 2009 14:31:39 +0000 http://brooklyniswatching.com/?p=1033#comment-1941 OK I'm going to make a list because I think it will be very helpful in demonstrating the potential negative impact the PG rule may have. Going through the BiW Wiki nominations I identified the following work, according to Linden Lab policy, that would most definitely, or potentially, not be permissible on a PG sim, regardless of "cultural significance" - RACHEL BREAKER - MAGICENCHANTED DREAM FACTORYNOBASE TANITH CATTENEO - Untitled Protest ARAHAN CLAVEAU - fuck me / shoot me ARAHAN CLAVEAU - Injustice BUTTERFLYSMASHER DANA - Various works ICHIBOT NISHI - episodic.atomized ICHIBOT NISHI & ARAHAN CLAVEAU - Beyond Human ICHIBOT NISHI & SELAVY OH - playground.space DEKKA RAYMAKER - 8 Platforms DEKKA RAYMAKER - Adult Content–Age Verification DEKKA RAYMAKER - Virgo Violated / No one is safe NEBULOSUS SEVERINE - Just Fucking Die NEBULOSUS SEVERINE - Look What You Made Me Do STEPHEN VENKMAN - Family Portraits TSUI YAMABUSHI - Brooklyn is Wanking So, all that amazing work would potentially not have been seen at Brooklyn is Watching had it been PG and everyone followed the rules and BiW enforced them. And if any of that work was reported by a resident the artist and possibly the landowners could face at best a warning to remove it and at worst a suspension or ban. You might look at that list and disagree, but remember you are not even allowed to swear in a PG area. There is a lot more work that isn't in the wiki that would be under threat, like 'Leave me the fuck alone' left by Neb in the early days, that would fail for the title alone. You might also be thinking "what was offensive about Ichibot's episodic.atomized?", well, there were images of genitals on the desk in the little hospital, and outside there was a car crash with bloody, dismembered puppets that definitely be considered 'mature'. Remember it is not just sexual themes, it is anything that is deemed as "broadly offensive", and that is always in the eye of the beholder. Your example of the Sistine Chapel is an interesting one Jay, in theory you would think it would be fine and yet the <a href="http://www.secondlifeinsider.com/2007/08/29/censorship-at-burning-life-again/" rel="nofollow">Cheen Pitney nude</a> was censored at Burning Life and moved to a mature area, so anything can happen. I have had my own art censored by LL, and it was in a mature sim hundreds of feet in the air, but because a bunch of people (including the charming Filthy Fluno) were offended by it and complained I was forced to remove it. I'm not writing about all this because I like causing a fuss, it's because I care about the Brooklyn is Watching project, I've supported it from the beginning and watched it evolve and it would be a terrible shame if the life and soul were sucked out of it because of limitations imposed by this move. The new sim IS bigger and better, and it is much more suitable as an art-space, nobody is disputing that, but we, the artists and fans have valid concerns. Also, is Popcha no longer a sponsor? Is Boris moving with you? OK I’m going to make a list because I think it will be very helpful in demonstrating the potential negative impact the PG rule may have. Going through the BiW Wiki nominations I identified the following work, according to Linden Lab policy, that would most definitely, or potentially, not be permissible on a PG sim, regardless of “cultural significance” –

RACHEL BREAKER – MAGICENCHANTED DREAM FACTORYNOBASE

TANITH CATTENEO – Untitled Protest

ARAHAN CLAVEAU – fuck me / shoot me

ARAHAN CLAVEAU – Injustice

BUTTERFLYSMASHER DANA – Various works

ICHIBOT NISHI – episodic.atomized

ICHIBOT NISHI & ARAHAN CLAVEAU – Beyond Human

ICHIBOT NISHI & SELAVY OH – playground.space

DEKKA RAYMAKER – 8 Platforms

DEKKA RAYMAKER – Adult Content–Age Verification

DEKKA RAYMAKER – Virgo Violated / No one is safe

NEBULOSUS SEVERINE – Just Fucking Die

NEBULOSUS SEVERINE – Look What You Made Me Do

STEPHEN VENKMAN – Family Portraits

TSUI YAMABUSHI – Brooklyn is Wanking

So, all that amazing work would potentially not have been seen at Brooklyn is Watching had it been PG and everyone followed the rules and BiW enforced them. And if any of that work was reported by a resident the artist and possibly the landowners could face at best a warning to remove it and at worst a suspension or ban.

You might look at that list and disagree, but remember you are not even allowed to swear in a PG area. There is a lot more work that isn’t in the wiki that would be under threat, like ‘Leave me the fuck alone’ left by Neb in the early days, that would fail for the title alone. You might also be thinking “what was offensive about Ichibot’s episodic.atomized?”, well, there were images of genitals on the desk in the little hospital, and outside there was a car crash with bloody, dismembered puppets that definitely be considered ‘mature’. Remember it is not just sexual themes, it is anything that is deemed as “broadly offensive”, and that is always in the eye of the beholder.

Your example of the Sistine Chapel is an interesting one Jay, in theory you would think it would be fine and yet the Cheen Pitney nude was censored at Burning Life and moved to a mature area, so anything can happen.

I have had my own art censored by LL, and it was in a mature sim hundreds of feet in the air, but because a bunch of people (including the charming Filthy Fluno) were offended by it and complained I was forced to remove it.

I’m not writing about all this because I like causing a fuss, it’s because I care about the Brooklyn is Watching project, I’ve supported it from the beginning and watched it evolve and it would be a terrible shame if the life and soul were sucked out of it because of limitations imposed by this move. The new sim IS bigger and better, and it is much more suitable as an art-space, nobody is disputing that, but we, the artists and fans have valid concerns.

Also, is Popcha no longer a sponsor? Is Boris moving with you?

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By: Mab MacMoragh http://brooklyniswatching.com/2009/07/02/moving-day/comment-page-1/#comment-1940 Mab MacMoragh Sun, 05 Jul 2009 03:29:01 +0000 http://brooklyniswatching.com/?p=1033#comment-1940 Also this: From Second Life Support Center Adult-oriented content controls FAQ: <i>Content is flagged as Adult in two ways: Use of adult keywords in names and descriptions Location on an Adult region</i> https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=6010 Also this:

From Second Life Support Center Adult-oriented content controls FAQ:

Content is flagged as Adult in two ways:

Use of adult keywords in names and descriptions
Location on an Adult region

https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=6010

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By: Mab MacMoragh http://brooklyniswatching.com/2009/07/02/moving-day/comment-page-1/#comment-1939 Mab MacMoragh Sun, 05 Jul 2009 03:26:08 +0000 http://brooklyniswatching.com/?p=1033#comment-1939 Yay for Impermanence! Yes Arahan, totally and proudly Mab's fault! ;) Jay, the Lindens have this to say (taken from Soup blog 1 June 2009: Second Life® Adult Content designation updated 1 June 2009 - from blog post by Cyn Linden: <i>Educational and cultural content will be exempted.</i> https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/features/blog/2009/06/01/adult-content-changes-in-summary The complete wording in "Knowledge Base>Second Life Info>Legal Matters>Policies>Maturity Ratings: an overview" is this: <i>We may take into account whether apparent or reported adult content or conduct on a particular Region serves only an extremely limited or passive function, or an important educational or cultural function, and therefore would be appropriate for all Second Life audiences.</i> https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=6010 Yay for Impermanence! Yes Arahan, totally and proudly Mab’s fault! ;)

Jay, the Lindens have this to say (taken from Soup blog 1 June 2009:

Second Life® Adult Content designation updated 1 June 2009 – from blog post by Cyn Linden:

Educational and cultural content will be exempted.

https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/features/blog/2009/06/01/adult-content-changes-in-summary

The complete wording in “Knowledge Base>Second Life Info>Legal Matters>Policies>Maturity Ratings: an overview” is this:

We may take into account whether apparent or reported adult content or conduct on a particular Region serves only an extremely limited or passive function, or an important educational or cultural function, and therefore would be appropriate for all Second Life audiences.

https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=6010

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